2/22 Check in Post

Share the joy

Hasn’t been a new check-in post for a while. How is everyone doing?

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67 Responses to 2/22 Check in Post

  1. Martha Fischer says:

    How are you doing? And has it thawed yet?

    • Susan J. Elliott Susan J. Elliott says:

      Thank you for asking. It’s very nice out now but there are reports of flooding and the pot holes are incredible.

      For those who don’t know, I fell on the ice twice last weekend and sustained two concussions and many soft tissue injuries and aggravated my already damaged back.

      I have been advised to not drive as my vision has been double but now it’s just a matter of being more blurry than usual. I’ve worn glasses since I’m 9 so whenever I look up and it’s blurry, I look for my glasses that happen to be on my face. Then other times I am bothered by the eyeglasses arm because that is exactly where I sustained a bruise and a cut so I take the glasses off. Then things get more blurry than they usually are without my glasses.

      The most upsetting thing to me (other than missing the retreat this weekend) is that my sleeping is so screwed up. I fall asleep for a few hours in the evening and then I wake up at midnight and stay awake all through the night and get overtired and can’t sleep at all.

      My sleep has been in fits and starts for the past week and I am exhausted by it. I’m getting only a few hours sleep a day and feel totally rocked by feeling tired and unable to sleep, hungry and unable to eat. I have been unable to sleep if it’s not totally dark which is not like me. I like it mostly dark but am very sensitive, right now, to any kind of light. If a car light goes by, I’m awake and usually can’t get back to sleep.

      As a result of THAT and the concussion, my thinking is very fuzzy and my memory is (temporarily I hope) shot. I sustained traumatic brain injury in a near-fatal car accident in 2003 and the memory I lost as a result of that has never returned and I have trauma induced dyslexia which I still find challenging since I did not have it most of my life and still forget I have it. The dyslexia is much worse this week.

      My eyesight is strained and lights bother me even when I’m not sleeping.

      I feel as if I’m in an altered state and just wish I could sleep or see or something. Everything is challenging right now and I am back to using a heating pad on my back (something I had managed to stop doing for a few months now…I thought my back was getting better…now it is decidedly worse than it’s been in a year or so.)

      Thank you for asking. I see the doctor again tomorrow and still need to have more tests done. I will report again then.

      • IchooseME says:

        Susan, so sorry to hear of your injuries and discomfort.

        I know how frustrating a long term healing process can be. Remember to be gentle and patient with yourself. You’d tell us that now is especially a time for self care and self love and maybe a good TV series to get into! I’d recommend Downton Abbey : D

        Please take care and best wishes for a speedy recovery.

      • elle says:

        Susan, so sorry you are going through this. A concussion is really serious! I am a big advocate of sleep being the most important goal in order to heal (mentally, emotionally AND physically) and see nothing wrong with using a sleep aid temporarily. Has the doctor recommended something to help you sleep or is that considered dangerous in a concussion situation? At any rate, we are all sending you positive, healing thoughts. Get well soon! Elle

      • incredible_lukeness says:

        you have been such a positive influence on my life. take care of yourself and get well soon.

        • Susan J. Elliott Susan J. Elliott says:

          Thank you so much. That really helps to know that! It’s been hell this winter and I am still feeling the effects of a horrible slip and fall.

    • incredible_lukeness says:

      Wow how am I doing? Pretty well. But I need dating advice.

      No contact really since last July (we broke up in June) … but I did take his call once to discuss a health related issue back in September I felt it was necessary. In retrospect I wish I hadn’t taken it. I got one text before I had blocking fixed proper. I also got one email before I had email fixed proper. All of these were basically boo hoo what a big mistake I made. (He’s right he did.) He also had one of his friends text me “accidentally” mixing me up with another “Luke.” Riiiiight. He also browsed my profile on an online dating site recently and when I saw he was on there I did not read his profile I blocked him immediately. I didn’t respond to any of the above.

      Anyway I switched therapists last fall and my new one was amazing taking me through the process of removing the narcissist from my life and understanding my relationship with my father which is why I allowed my ex- to abuse me so much. No contact I’m moving along pretty happily here for the first time and *BANG* it hits me: A girl who I really think is pretty, and witty, not necessarily sexy, but kinda, but beautiful.

      She seems to like me for who I am and that feels uncomfortable when we move towards “dating.” I have always been a performer. She sees through me quietly. And I have to say this again: she is beautiful. Chestnut hair, green eyes … stunning. And I don’t feel I have to win her. We went on a date with another couple the other night, and while the beginning went well, it sort of fizzled. It’s almost like I don’t know what I am doing all over again. A second adolescence.

      I have always been attracted to people I had to win their praise. Then I would have a 2 year relationship doing “tricks for treats” like a trained circus animal, grow tired and move on to the next beautiful person who treated me poorly that I could try and win over. I am over simplifying but thats pretty much what happens with me.

      Anyway, while my life is good I would like someone to share it with. I sometimes think about the Banana Head. I know like a crack pipe I can never pick him up again. But I need to learn the necessary skills of dating humans without huge issues, not primarily based on sex, and forming a comfortable relationship. I’m in my 50s and have no idea what it means to be in a healthy relationship.

      All advise appreciated and considered.


  2. IchooseME says:

    By all appearances, I’m fine but I don’t feel like I’m doing particularly well.

    Not convinced that therapy is helping me. I worry that it’s giving me an excuse to continue to talk about the breakup which I’m not sure is constructive at this point. But I’m afraid to stop going because I’ll have no one to talk to if I need to (except posting here, of course). I stopped talking about the breakup with friends and family awhile ago and I think it would really worry and irritate them if I started to bring it up again.

    Also, I’ve started to worry that I’ll regress when I’m alone in my new place (I’ve been living with my sister and her fiancé since moving to my new city, so I’m rarely alone). The ruminations and obsessive thoughts still come when I have no distractions- when I’m trying to fall asleep at night or first thing in the morning when I wake up, sometimes because I’ve dreamt of him or his family. In the dreams, I’m either asking him why, why this happened or I’m somehow back in the relationship and wishing that I could get out. It always makes me so sad.

    I guess an undertone of sadness just lingers still. When I read the news, I cry at all the awful things that are happening in the world (much more terrible than what I’ve been through) because I know what pain and loneliness and loss feel like now. I hate that it seems like life demands we hurt at some point. It just seems cruel.

    But, I was able to smile at people at the train station bringing flowers home to their Valentines last week, so I must be getting better. I know it’s not indicative of their relationships but it still made me happy that, somewhere down the Brown line, someone got those flowers. Maybe I’m starting to hope a little…

    Anyway, thanks for listening. Hope everyone is doing okay : )

    • elle says:

      IchooseME, You ARE getting better! No doubt about that! But everything comes in waves. It isn’t a linear journey. You will go back and forth between feeling okay and obsessive thinking and sadness. We process our feelings in dreams, so as disturbing as they may be sometimes, they are also an indication that you are working through stuff. I would suggest that you continue going to therapy but stop talking about the relationship. Why don’t you start exploring early memories? Maybe talking about your family dynamics or feelings you remember from childhood will help you get some needed understanding of your patterns. This is a time to focus on YOU. Take the focus off of him and you may discover you are growing in ways you never expected. You may think you don’t have anything to talk about, but sometimes if you just poke at seemingly trivial stuff, it will lead you to somewhere else. Elle

    • incredible_lukeness says:

      I choose: dump the therapist. mine was the problem. it was the hardest part of my recovery but dumped him and found someone willing to walk with me through susan’s book. thats what you want.

  3. mchinela says:

    Hey everyone,
    Break up wise I am doing ok , this date in August in 6 months it will be 2 years.. crazy! My therapist has been working with me to focus on the now . She taught me a new exercise. Everytime my mind goes to the past , I stop and start saying to myself what objects are in front of me. Also I remember why it didnt work, how it never would have worked, how he will never change , and how water seeks its own level. I have been with someone for almost 2 months now. We have something good. It isnt sick co dependancy or not wanting to be alone or anything of that sort . There is mutual respect and compromise and he treats me as I want to be treated. He was with someone as well for 7 years who hurt him and they always fought and had issues like me and my BH so we are both growing into ourselves and learning .. I feel perhaps because he is a guy he is more healed or appears to be. He never brings her up or is disrespectful.

    Work and Grad school are going good to. The only big issue in my life right now that is causing me stress is my roomate. He is a BH Narc liar , demented , shady etc. Basc. I moved into this place two years ago . I realized after a few months my roommate is controlling and OCD (literaly gets upset if one fork is dirty and in the sink , but he will leave a pile of dishes) he basically is the master tenant but tries to treat the house as his. Lots of people have left because of his controlling psycho ways. He is actually going to court this week for not returning my past roommates deposit back . Which he claimed the lanldlord had (though legally its not on landlord ) and turned out the landlord didnt even know other people were occupying our place. Its all shady and lie after lie. He text me last week because I left bathroom window open and freaked out and told me I should find somewhere else to live and acted demonic and evil. i live in a city where my rights as a renter are #1, and he doesnt know that.. though he should.. long story short we never speak face to face..

    he always sends me novel long texts and I made the mistake of calling him a coward and he called me one back and said he is open to talking with roommates and I used to attempt to say hello to him but to no avail because he would ignore me.. he also has made up stories to me to other roommates (all who have left bc of him) and when i called him out on it he claims they are lying..so basically speaking to him is like speaking to a sociopath because he rebutts everything and refuses to listen .. he is truely insane and I actually stayed in a hotel last night but i am not going to live in fear.. funny i thought i had ran far from narc banana heads but he is one ….. i am playing dumb but will show him all the rights i have.. he is pullng some illegal weird funny business and i refuse to be taken down by him … just had to vent ! i am being tested right now and i will prevail…

  4. tara001 says:

    Susan, so sorry to hear about your falls and injuries. I hope your eyesight and whatever other effects of your concussions (serious stuff!) are resolving over time, and that you are caring for yourself very well.

    Mchinela, you are doing fantastic to recognize that your roommate is a narc. It means you are seeing things clearly! Yeah, he is one genuine nutcase psychopath. Let us know how you are doing about finding another (healthier) place to live!

    Ichooseme, your reactions sound very “normal” and typical for recovery. These are the pains of grief and anger and self-doubt and self-esteem building, and it is all helping you to process what has happened to you, and to move on in a healthy way. Thank you for sharing all of it!

    My own update; I’ve been on this blog for a few years, and it has helped me tremendously. I have made some friends here, learned a LOT from all of you, and I am a different person. Literally! I’m at the point of dating (casually) happily and without any expectations, and my life is entirely narc-free. Not involved with anyone, and that is fine. That is a HUGE accomplishment for me; I now spot ‘em coming a mile away, and their actions and words are so familiar to me that I can pretty much write their dialogue for them. In fact, I’ve been writing down some of the jaw-dropping narc-speak that I’ve heard over the years, and it’s pretty much turning into a novel (I’m calling it “A Crack In The Mirror”), and it’s writing itself! Others who have not been through this find it hard to believe that people are really this bad, but those of us who have been through it know very well exactly what it’s like. Trust yourself; it’s really real! You CAN come out of the fog, and find yourself again!

    I want to give encouragement to those of you who are recently (or longer) out of a relationship, and struggling. Trust yourself, and give yourself time. It takes time to see the weird, twisted, pathological, gaslighting, manipulative, lying, deceitful, future-faking, fast-forwarding behavior for what it is. It took me several decades, I’m embarrassed to say! So give yourself time (while doing the work, of course!), remain NC as a gift to yourself of quiet healing growing space where a New You can grow, and trust your instincts. If you think someone is cheating or lying, ask him/her. If you KNOW someone is not treating you with love, care, respect, dignity, and respect for you and your boundaries, walk away. Anything less than decent treatment is not acceptable. I have a zero-tolerance for any kind of b.s. now, whether from “friends,” thoughtless colleagues, potential dates, and family members who think it’s perfectly to shuffle from one train wreck to another and have the audacity to blame me for not wanting to participate. It feels so good!

    And I would encourage all of us in this recovery effort to remember that all of those elements of care, respect, healthy boundaries, and thoughtfulness are what we should be giving ourselves every day, as this makes us healthier, happier, and better people in the world, and all people benefit from our growth, our strength, and our healthy boundaries.

    Something I wrote, from the viewpoint of an emotional vampire: “Why did I bite you on the neck after you so sweetly and willingly offered it to me, thinking you could trust me not to hurt you? Why did I suck you dry and fling your useless husk to the curb, striding off without a backward glance, as I sought out my next victim? Because I can. And because you let me.” — Vampire

    • elle says:

      Hi Tara,

      I love this post, and I’m so happy to see you here again. I agree with you that it takes time for the process to work – to see clarity, work through personal issues, heal, and to learn to love yourself and set real boundaries. I’ve been saying for a decade that I won’t take this or that ever again… but until I faced MYSELF and learned why I had been accepting the unacceptable, just saying I had boundaries wasn’t enough. You have to learn to walk the walk – to feel at a gut level that you are worth better.

      It took me 1 1/2 years after the break-up that brought me here to truly see and admit that he was a narc, a liar, a manipulative cheater who put forth a well-honed façade of honesty and decency. To this day I think he believes what he says. I found out in August that he had been with another woman he met in his ski-racing world (that he kept me far away from_- a Finnish ski racer mom from Westchester County, NY – at the same time he had been with me. He used the need to protect his kids during the divorce to convince me to remain hidden, but it never had anything to do with his kids. And when his divorce went through and he walked away rather than be open as a couple with me, claiming he needed time on his own before committing to a relationship and giving me hope, it was because he was with the other woman already. To realize and accept that a man I thought I loved and whom I believed was honest had looked me in the eye and lied, and that he never ever really cared about me at all, has been difficult. Some people are just twisted and bad, and good at faking that they are capable of real feelings!!!

      Your Vampire quote is so right on because he is a bad person, but I gave him my neck! He only got away with it because I let him. Looking back with a new perspective, I know there were numerous signs I should have interpreted and acted on. The more signs you ignore, the more you rationalize away unacceptable behavior, the deeper invested in the illusion you become and the harder and more painful it will be when it finally does blow up in your face. We have to value ourselves enough to walk away, before we become deeply invested in an illusion. I am finally learning to value myself that much. I am finally learning to stop rationalizing and making excuses for another’s behavior. Two years after he walked out I still hurt when I think of him sometimes, and I do still think of him a lot, but I know it’s because I am missing the illusion and I am still somewhat in disbelief that he was such an absolute fake. This too shall pass.

      I have started re-reading Susan’s book since it has been so long since I read it the first time. I did the inventory work a long time ago, but I may do it again. A point she makes early in the book has really hit home for me — be alone. Learn to love and care for yourself. Build a life that is happy and content without having to have a man (or woman) in it. It takes time to do this, but once you do you will be ready to set boundaries and make judgment calls that are in your best interest. You won’t stay with a man just because you are scared be alone. You won’t offer your neck to the vampire- you’ll tell him “sorry buddy, you just aren’t worth it!”

      • tara001 says:

        Hi, Elle. Thanks for your response! Man, your BH was a real piece of work, wasn’t he? There’s a punk song out there called “It Sucks To Be You” and it must really be awful for them to be them; living one minute to another in layer after layer of lies. Maybe they never DO get it, even on their death beds, how a life without integrity is just a wasted life…. but when WE get it, we can walk away and save ourselves.

        And we willingly offered our necks because we honestly didn’t know any better, and gave them the benefit of the doubt that they didn’t deserve. Oh well; at least we didn’t turn into one of them after getting bitten! ;-)

    • knd393 says:

      Susan…Hope you feel better soon. It is stressful and I wish you a speedy recovery.

      Tara..your post was inspiring. I am on day 33 of NC. I have had ups and downs. Today I woke up thinking about him. Thinking about how only 5 weeks ago, we were planning a future. I play a word game online with his mother still, and while she is sweet, and told me his behavior was deplorable, she seems to be pulling away from me as well. His parents are planning on visiting him soon, and I get a big pit in my stomach even seeing his name written by her. I guess I am wondering if I should go NC with them as well? I dread hearing how he is back with his wife. How that horrible woman, who abused him is now what he wants again. Despite the fact, for two years all he could do was whine about her, he FLEW back to her days after I ended our relationship. And despite three short messages on Skype – which I deleted – he has never contacted me or tried to apologize. I know logically that is good, but my mind is still obsessed about getting the chance to scream at him. He was whiney, indecisive, a hypochondriac and selfish. I want to STOP thinking about this. I want peace from this pain that pops up when I least expect it.

      Should I go NC with his parents?

      I am journaling. I am trying to be positive. I am trying my hardest, but some days, I feel so sad. It is better, but still bad days. Like today.

      • tara001 says:

        knd393, it sounds like interaction with his parents is painful. They’re caught in an in-between place with this guy — their son — who is so shallow he can plan a future with you one minute, and fly off to be with someone else the next minute.

        If it were me, I would quietly unplug from them, too; nothing needs to be said, just pull away with NC so you truly DO have the space without thoughts, reminders, little hopes, etc. You will have to do your screaming in your own journaling, glad you are doing that!!! –rather than screaming to his pathetic (immature) face. And yelling at him would accomplish nothing; wouldn’t change him, won’t make you feel better. He won’t apologize. And if he did, what difference would that make? He’s an adult (whether immature or not); he makes his own choices and chooses his own actions. An apology without a change in integrity and character is just lipstick on a pig.

        The one thing that CAN make you feel better is NC; saying that you have too much respect for yourself and self-esteem to continue to wallow in his mudpen (which includes contact with his parents, even if they are nice people). NC is a hard road at the beginning, but it is a road that guarantees growth, time for introspection, rebirth of self-esteem. The sadness etc. is very, very normal; recovery is not linear, but that is okay … you will have up days (and moments) and then down days (and moments) but gradually, the up days and moments will be there more than the down days. You can do it!!

        • knd393 says:


          I am having such a painful day. You actually made me smile with the pig comment! I talked to his mother, and she is so very sweet. And I think your advice about slowly going NC with them as well is good. I told her to wish him the best, but that I don’t want to ever speak of him again. I don’t want to hear how he is planning a life, again, with a woman who actually hit him, and made him miserable. It is his life to live, and that is that. He is shallow, and weak, and I need to keep reminding myself, I deserve better. It will sink in completely soon.

          Thank you! This helps so much.

          • tara001 says:

            knd, sounds like he and this new woman — what, she HITS him??? — are made for each other. And his happiness is contingent on his own choices and actions; doesn’t sound like much happiness ahead for him. O well; not your problem! Good riddance!

            And yes, it may take in time to sink in completely, and that’s perfectly okay, as you’re dealing with cognitive dissonance now (what you thought it was vs. what it actually was) and that takes time! You’re doing great! Altho…. I think continued contact with his mom, whether she’s sweet or not, is not a good idea, esp. since you’re asking her to give him messages (wishing him the best, not wanting to ever see him again) — it’s not NC. I know it’s painful, but I think you need to back away from his sweet mom, too….. there are other great, compassionate, sweet people in the world!

  5. lost_in_space says:

    Hi everyone,

    It’s been 5 weeks NC and 6 weeks since the “break” for me. I’m not finding it hard to stay NC, however, I am increasingly irritated that he hasn’t tried to contact me. I know it is both a desire to control the uncontrollable and a desire to keep holding on, but it seems like I would feel better if he would contact me so that I could reject HIM! Overall my anxiety level has diminished and I’m more or less functioning again. I’m pretty sure I’m in the middle stage of grief, going back and forth through guilt, sadness, confusion, anger, nostalgia. Although I feel a little apathetic about life right now, I am feeling much better than I was just 3 weeks ago!
    I know that 6 weeks is not very long, but I am sick of thinking about him. There’s nothing left to analyze, yet he consumes my thoughts whenever I have downtime. I think it’s my brain trying to make sense of something that will never make sense. I’m anxious for the moment when I can accept that. Journaling is still helping a lot, as is talking to my friends – now when I hear myself talk about what happened, it all sounds so ridiculous!
    I went on a trip with a meet up group last weekend, something I would never have done before the ex. It was fun and I’m glad I went, although I struggled somewhat thinking about how much happier I would be if the ex was with me. I know what I’m really missing is the high drama and the validation I felt when he chose to spend time with me.
    Overall I’m doing ok, even if I’m sad. I’m grateful for all the encouragement provided by others on this site, and sending everyone out there lots of support! Hope you are feeling better Susan

    • callie35 says:

      lost_in_space… be glad he hasn’t contacted you even if you feel like you would reject him. Mine contacted me in January to let me know that his relationship had ended and if I was ready to be friends seeing as I stopped talking to him because he started seeing someone new. **eyeroll** anyway, I told him NO. And that there were other reasons we stopped talking. A week later we ended up communicating because I didn’t think it through and was excited about some news – and was told that they got back together because she worked things out in her head…yea, in one week? whatever. she is separated and I am sure a mess. But they are on the same level now!

      anyway – my point of posting was I wanted to hear from him too and when I finally did … I was mad, then on a high from hearing from him then it hurt a lot. Be glad he hasn’t contacted. Mine contacted after 3 months and I knew it was coming. I know another contact is coming too, but its all in how I handle it when it happens or not handle it. I don’t have to respond.

      • lost_in_space says:

        Hi Callie35,

        Thank you for the insight :) Today I reached out to the one mutual friend of ours that I really wanted to stay in contact with, and I’m now reeling from our conversation. I thought that since she wasn’t very good friends with him when we broke up, it wouldn’t be to difficult to have a friendship separate from the ex. Not only did I find out that he has brought her into his inner circle over the past few weeks, but that he has been telling people that I broke up with HIM, and that our relationship just “fizzled out” because I wanted different things than him (yeah, like an actual relationship!). The reality is that he called me abusive, emotionally unstable, kicked me out of the house, called for the next week telling me he missed me and that he was anxious, and then disappeared. Shortly before his disappearance I told him that I hoped we could work it out, and he visibly cringed.
        Anyway, my point is that even without real contact, this was close enough. I am in shock, angry, and disgusted. It is unbelievable how someone could live in a completely different reality. I feel as if I now have confirmation that he does indeed have narcissistic tendencies and will do anything to avoid feeling any sort of negative emotion. He is the perpetual victim that all the girls want to rally around and comfort. And I also have the closure I was missing – we are indeed broken up. (When he kicked me out, we were on a “break” but he wanted me to keep his house keys, ugh).
        I no longer want him to contact me because I now realize that it’s only going to hurt. At least there is the space to heal.
        I’m glad that you are doing well!

        • Goldie says:

          Hi Lost_…

          This sounds familiar! Last fall, 2-ish months after breakup, I tried to reach out to my ex’s friends and one of them got back to me. He was (probably still is) very supportive, and very good to me, unlike the rest of my ex’s friends, who just fell off the face of the earth as far as I was concerned. But yes he did tell me something similar to what you heard from your mutual friend. Except in my case, my ex told his friends NOTHING about our breakup. In his friend’s words, “you were there every weekend, and then one day you weren’t and none of us knew why”. So most of them assumed who knows what, and stopped talking to me because they felt it’d be awkward. I lost touch with pretty much all of my friends because I’d spent two years of my life around those guys, and now they’re gone. Anyway when I heard that, I had mixed feelings. I felt relieved that my ex wasn’t bad-mouthing me behind my back (like I admit I had been afraid he might do). But I felt sad that I’d lost pretty much all of my social life and all of my human contacts, outside of my family, because of how he handled things. That was in November and my social life still leaves a lot to be desired. I just don’t have that same spunk anymore that I had when I was a fresh college grad moving into a new town for work, and then a 29yo coming into a new country, when I could build my social network from scratch in no time. I am 46 now and I’m finding that it’s a LOT harder this time around. Though right now, I’m pretty busy with my family – my older son just got a job offer that he will have to move across the country for. His move should keep me occupied for a while, and take my mind off the fact that I still have no friends to hang out with.

          That’s pretty horrible of your ex not even to tell you that you two are broken up, but to tell that to his friends instead. Who does this… sigh.

          • lost_in_space says:

            Hey Goldie! It’s funny, because my ex has several different groups of friends, and after a strange phone call from one of his friends yesterday, I don’t think my ex has told that group anything either!! The guy who called me talked as if my ex and I are still together – it’s all so weird. I truly think these guys have to find a way to turn it around on us or to just make it disappear so that they can lock away any sort of negative emotion deep down inside and just walk away. I also was afraid he would bad mouth me, but I think we’ll eventually get to the point where we just won’t care what they said or didn’t say to their friends.
            Another annoying thing – I found out from a friend on Sunday that my ex posted on FB that he was depressed because it was the third year anniversary of his divorce and he wasn’t married with kids. Glad to know that our relationship meant nothing :( I had an absolutely horrible weekend obsessing, but I feel like each time I regress, it lasts a little bit shorter, and then I take a bigger step forward – feeling pretty calm right now.
            Yes, It’s so hard to lose that entire social network. I know I’m younger than you, but it’s harder for me too because my friends are mainly married with kids, and don’t want to hang out much anymore. I was actually uninvited from a trip to Vegas a few weeks ago because it was a “mommy’s getaway”! Although kids weren’t coming on the trip, I guess not being a mother disqualified me. In an effort to expand my social network, I’ve really been focused on immersing myself in activities that involve groups of people, and then taking the initiative to invite people to go out with me, and it’s been a positive experience. I’m very guilty of adopting my boyfriend’s friends rather than cultivating my own, only to lose those friends during a breakup. My recent experience reaching out to people has been really positive, but I’m not going to lie – it is taking a lot of energy. Another thing I’m trying to do is to be more willing to do things alone. I’ve never been comfortable with that in the past and I think it’s because I wonder what others will think of me. It’s that whole self-esteem thing that’s been getting in the way.
            Anyway, I hope the move goes well and I definitely think having something new to focus on will be beneficial. And yes, my ex is a jerk :)

          • Goldie says:


            Hah, sometimes I think you and I did have the same ex. Or maybe they were twins separated at birth. In my case, he once told me, about a year before he left, that his sabbatical was coming up in a couple of years and that he’d started making plans to spend that entire year overseas… He then added that he’d never been able to do that before, because, each time during his sabbatical, he had a family. I remember thinking, is he telling me that now he has no one? Then what am I? Guess I got my answer to that question eventually, lol

            ” I was actually uninvited from a trip to Vegas a few weeks ago because it was a “mommy’s getaway”! Although kids weren’t coming on the trip, I guess not being a mother disqualified me.”

            What? WHAT? I’ve been a mother for 21 years and my brain just exploded… Who does that?! Sorry that you had to take this from your friends(?)

            Thanks for the tips on how to grow a social network. I’ve been doing some of it, but sporadically. Will need to step up the efforts. I’ve started doing things alone too. My 18yo son actually encouraged me. He’s very social, has several groups of friends, a girlfriend etc and sometimes he’ll just go and do things alone, if he wants to do them and cannot find anyone to go with him. I too was afraid I’d look like a loser being alone at an event, but he assured me there’s no shame in going places by yourself, and he was right.

            Good luck to you too, both with moving on, and reconnecting with old and new friends.

    • knd393 says:


      I hear exactly what you are saying. The need to control, have the final words. All of it. But I feel that even that brief contact would send me spiralling back into the whole nightmare again. Yes, it would be fleetingly nice to know he misses me, but what would be better is to NOT CARE. That is my goal.

      I keep telling myself: He shouldn’t get to have this much of my brain time, while I am just a blip in his.

      Going to journal and scream it out. Take care of yourself everyone.

      • lost_in_space says:

        I feel like it was definitely another lesson learned. Same thing when I checked out his Facebook page two weeks after I went NC (I’m at 6 weeks now). It was horribly painful and as a result, I wont do it again. No contact with his friends or social media, and I have told my friends not to update me on anything they hear. Yes, scream it out to anyone/thing but him! IT IS NOT WORTH IT!!!! These guys are not normal and we will never understand something that can’t be understood. It looks like you may be about 2 weeks behind me in terms of NC length. I can honestly say I feel significantly better than I did 2 weeks ago. Small reprieves from the obsessive thoughts. We will get there!!!

  6. callie35 says:

    I haven’t written on here for awhile. I am 5 months NC. With brief communication with BH in january. Every week is different for me emotion wise. This week I feel pretty good. I have been re-reading The No Contact Rule book by Natalie Lue and its finally sinking in. I feel like I am finally turning a corner. I am trying not to be so hard on myself for feeling what I feel. We broke up in May of last year, but we didn’t go NC until September. I was in denial, thinking he would change his mind all summer when we started hanging out again all the time. I remember sitting at my desk at work, crying my eyes out telling him that I had to go no contact. I knew it was the right thing to do but it was the hardest thing I have had to do in a long time. He was a huge part of my life for 2.5 years…and never walked away like this before because it would hurt too much. But I am now sitting at work, typing this message, and thinking about how I did it. How I’ve kept to NC for most of the last 5 months and even though I’ve always known I can live without him (Just didn’t want too) that I CAN live without him. Its nice to not be wondering all the time when I will hear from him, when will I see him…why isn’t he texting me? Etc. When we were friends, whenever my phone beeped I wanted it to be him. And when it wasn’t, it was always disappointing. Its nice to not have to deal with that anymore. I do find myself wanting his number to show up on my phone but I think that just stems from wanting attention. Anyway – I am sure I will have some more sad days but I feel confident that I can get through this.

  7. just_me just_me says:

    Any body know of a good book about Red Flags? Or maybe you can share some Red Flags you have experienced/dealt with so I can educate myself what to watch for?

    The basics: lying, cheating, not following through, actions not matching words, coming on too strong, not respecting boundaries are all I have dealt with and can see fairly easily, but I’m sure there are a lot more that I miss……anybody wanna share some from their experiences? Old timers, Tara, Elle, Phoenix, Blu…..what have you learned to watch for?

    Thanks all!!

    • Phoenix says:

      Hi just_me,
      The best indicator of pink (hmm…that is strange but let me see where this goes) and red flags (mission ended pronto) is your gut. That is why the GPYPers I keep in contact with say that dating is like a final exam from Susan’s book. Dating puts everything in play: your standards and your boundaries. Notice I said “your.” It is what resonates with you that matters so that you hold true to them even when the lust comes into play to try to do the fog roll in of where you stand.

      To that end, Susan at her seminar asked the participants to do three lists: what is a no go with a partner, what is definitely wanted and what is can go either way on it. Those lists should be formulated before dating so you have clear boundaries and standards within yourself that help you when it comes to practicing them in real life. Note, these lists can be modified for work and friendships. I have done that, and those areas have improved considerably.

      For me, there are certain things that have been noted when I was dating post the big breakup. Right now, I am in an exclusive relationship with a really emotionally-healthy guy. Before I met him, I found that listening helped. The red flags come out if we pay attention. Joking often reveals an underlying truth. The guy who belittled therapy while we walked past a therapist office one day was definitely a red flag alert for me. I firmly believe in therapy and it’s benefits. The guy who wished his ex got an STD was another red flagger; rude to speak ill of the mother of his child and definitely not going to take my herpes diagnosis well. The guy who joked about three ways, but insisted he was not serious, only to go back to the three way theme via “I have been having dreams” to flat out asking for one. Jokes, dreams, mirages…red flags of what they really want.

      I also knew that things that are important to me have to be respected, but not necessarily shared. I love long-distance running, but I do not expect a potential partner to lace up his shoes and do a marathon. But I do expect that the guy gets that I need that “me” time. The guy I am with now ran a bunch of marathons, but he has been sidelined with a health issue. Ironically, we cannot run together, but I am there for him at the medical appointments. I know he would do the same for me. That is what I expect. A potential partner has to be there for the good and the bad. Can you see that with a potential mate? Same thing goes for my kids. The guy has to get that I have them, and that they are part of my package. If the guy does not get it, adios.

      But observing is important. Does the guy go off about his buddy’s sexual exploits? Chances are that he will share stories about you. One guy I dated told his commuting buddies about our personal business. I was not pleased. My bf now has been told that he seems much happier lately, but he is mum as to details about me. The co-workers know I exist, but my bf has discretion. I value that.

      Observing includes how he treats others from friends, co workers to wait staff. Little clues to whether he is a self important jerk or a good guy. I once saw a guy park a car. He did not get the door for his wife, which could go either way. But what blew me away: he did not even wait for her to get out of the car. He just kept walking from the car to the restaurant. Way rude.

      Also communication. Does he know how to put the phone to the side and focus on you? Do you have. Meal together and talk about the day or plop in front of distractions? That little stuff means a lot.

      I did read the little book of red flags, which was amusing. I adore the baggage reclaim books and blog. I fully embrace the need for standards and boundaries in every area of one’s life before the final exam of dating. The relationship inventories in Susan’s book, the affirmations, and the standards/boundaries to lift the self esteem, all of which are espoused by the book and this blog, really encapsulate that we get what we put up with (Thelma and Louise). We want a good guy who speaks our language of standards, boundaries, self esteem and values, then we have to do it too. Water does seek its own level. The cretins won’t be able to get to your elevated status. They will see what a healthy person you are and know better. If they don’t, you will because those standards and boundaries will be in play automatically.

      Hope this helps!

      • lost_in_space says:

        This is such a great post! Thank you!!

      • elle says:


        What an awesome response!!! You touched on many things I was thinking after JM’s post.

        Those of us who have been in relationships with men who have walked all over us have had issues of low self-esteem and low boundaries. Our goals have had to be to follow Susan’s advice and do the work on ourselves first, to bring those levels up. When we venture back out into the world of dating and have real life opportunities to practice, I think it’s important not to ‘invest’ in a relationship too quickly. Pay attention to your feelings and your instincts because they speak the truth, but don’t decide that ‘this is the one’ for at least six months to a year. It is too easy to emotionally invest and then feel we have to rationalize away what our gut tells us as we move along. You just can’t really know a person that quickly. What you ‘know’ is what they are choosing to present to you, and some guys are very good at the façade. I would be willing to bet that many of us here decided that we loved the guy who broke our heart 2-3 months into the relationship. We’ve just got to learn to give things more time.

        I have decided that I need to wait to become intimate. I have been guilty in the past of trying to win a relationship by connecting s*xually, and that has made me vulnerable. So if a guy suggests s*x on the first, second or third date, that is a red flag for me. It tells me he is not necessarily interested in a real relationship. If he won’t respect my need to wait, then I dodged a bullet. I have not really dated yet, but I did agree to meet a guy for dinner whom I have known through friends for probably 25 years. I sang in the church at his wedding actually! He left his marriage last summer and has been living on his own, so I met him for dinner. We had a really good time, he told me he really liked me and wanted to see me again, and kissed me goodnight. Totally freaky for me since it’s been two years since I’ve come anywhere near a man physically. He joked about me going home with him, but I wouldn’t go. We had some text conversations and set up a second date, which he cancelled on the day saying he had a sore throat but would love to reschedule. I sent him two more texts that day which he never responded to. Almost two weeks later I sent him another one-line text and he completely ignored me, yet he has been on match 24/7. So I stuck to my boundary and he turned out to be a jerk!!! I am a bit shocked that he didn’t at least give me an explanation, considering I am a friend of his family and friends and will inevitably run into him.

        I think a lot of it comes down to expecting that communication will be straight-forward and respectful, and that things will flow easily. It’s not so much what they do but what they don’t do. There shouldn’t be any moments of having to guess what is going on. Communication should be direct, and if it isn’t open and natural like it is with your friends, that is a red flag. Getting to know someone shouldn’t create anxiety, and it shouldn’t be all that difficult. It’s important not to rationalize away anything or give the benefit of the doubt or trust before trust has been earned. Your gut speaks the truth.

      • just_me just_me says:

        Thanks Phoenix & Elle! Your responses helped me a lot! I’m not dating at the moment, I am really spending a lot of time getting myself “right” and studying some of the areas I know I need to learn, improve and implement into my life. Boundaries, standards and trusting myself are all on top of the list! I still going to therapy, although it’s with a new therapist – mine moved to another state, and she has a more “tell it like it is” approach, which is good for me.

        I have also realized that I’ve abandoned myself in a lot of ways. The things I have done and accepted are really under par from what I really want out of myself and others. I have also realized that the way I’ve treated myself and have allowed others to treat me is no longer acceptable. Family, friends, boyfriends, etc…..I’ve willingly accepted crumbs because it was better than nothing at all, but as I’ve come to know, believe in and treasure myself as a valuable, loving, caring, worthwhile woman crumbs are no longer enough. I would rather be alone than accept half assed love. My heart is beginning to sing with love for myself. My inner light is beginning to shine and I’m truly happy, in and of myself…..warts and all. And I have to say, being in love with myself is the BEST feeling in the world and the best part, it will NEVER walk away!

        Wishing you guys all the BEST and thanks again for your input and guidance throughout this LONG journey of mine. You will never know how much you have helped and just how grateful I am for you!



        • elle says:


          I am very much in the same place that you are. I don’t want to risk trying to move on with someone until I know for sure that I am completely comfortable and happy being alone and caring for myself. I remember having conversations with you awhile back about external validation vs. internal validation. Our patterns are so well-learned that it is going to take a long time to reverse how we are. I’ve had friends and acquaintances try to push me to go out with someone, anyone, and have even had it suggested to me that if I don’t want a relationship I should just find someone to have s*x with. Some people really are completely ignorant of the healing and self-esteem growth that is our journey. I realize I don’t have to explain myself to (and it’s pointless to try). No, I am not going to go out with anyone. Period. :)

          I had a set-back this week (it’s been awhile) because a friend of my ex BH’s whom I run into regularly (we never mention the BH) hired one of my best friends to work for him in his painting company. He talked to her confidentially about the situation with me and the BH (which she of course told me about).

          A little more background – I found out this past September, 18 months after the split, that he had been seeing not one but TWO other women when we were together. He had maintained that we were in an exclusive relationship and were keeping things “under the radar” only to protect his kids until his divorce was final – like I would have been sleeping with him for 14 months if I had had any clue?!!! I was so angry when I found this out that I emailed him after six months of NC and told him he was manipulative and disingenuous and I suspect everything he ever said as having been fabricated. He replied that I was a bit harsh and off the mark in my assessment. I answered “I thought I was being fair considering I know the truth.” and he answered “It was an emotionally wracking time since I was going through a contentious divorce and trial. Being in that situation may have affected what I said, or my recollection or impression of it, but I can’t be sure.” A blanket disclaimer effectively invalidating a year of my life. Lovely. I emailed his now ex-girlfriend on Linked-in and asked her when they had started seeing each other. She contacted him and he blocked me on facebook. I am not proud that I broke NC, but I do forgive myself for reacting extremely.

          Apparently this friend knew at the time that the BH was seeing three of us and had been told that he was “just dating”. He always believed the BH was a “straight shooter”, and had been told that I had emailed the ex-girlfriend, which translated into me being the psycho!

          So the anger was all stirred up again and it took me a good 3-4 days to work through it — insomnia, anxiety, messed up dreams, unable to focus at work. I talked to friends, read about narcissists and journaled a LOT. This time I did not act from my anger, so there is progress there, and I got to the place of knowing what this friend of the BH thinks doesn’t matter doesn’t matter doesn’t matter.

          So to conclude, how can I realistically claim to be ready to move on into a new relationship if I still get this upset about the situation with the BH? I will continue to work on ME. I don’t want to use a new relationship to avoid all of these feelings. I need to feel them. It’s okay to be alone.


          • just_me just_me says:


            Yes, of course it is okay to be alone and for however long you need to be. It’s YOUR journey and YOU are the director of your life….no need to rush anything to please other people. You trust your own gut and you will be just fine.

            For me, I’m fighting the “I’ve been single for SO long, I just wanna find my guy already” thoughts. This year I will have been divorced for 7 years. It will be 4 years since the break up that brought me to Susan’s book and this blog and almost a year and a half since I broke up with the guy who I thought was “the one”. Yes, I’ve dated some since then, but not a lot and nothing to get excited about. I’m frustrated to say the least. But what has really been on my mind and heart lately is why I’m so bound and determined (desperate even at times) to be in a relationship. I mean it’s like the end all, be all for me. WHY? I’m perfectly fine alone. I LOVE my alone time, I often choose to spend time with myself instead of going out with friends. I truly enjoy my own company. I enjoy having the freedom to do what I want, when I want, how I want and don’t have to even think about someone else….it’s really nice. So I don’t completely understand the immense “pull” towards having/being in a relationship. Somehow in my head I have this “happily ever after scenario” or this thought that I will be happier when I’m in a long term, happy, healthy relationship. I’ve been married, so I KNOW it’s not all skittles and rainbows, and I also KNOW that I won’t settle for just anybody to be in a relationship with. I know what I want, need and what I will tolerate in my life. But that pull and longing just won’t go away. It’s like this extreme VOID that only a good relationship can fill. I’ve gotta get to the bottom of it, because I feel like I’m wasting my life waiting around for someone who may never come.
            I am REALLY trying to focus on just “being me” and figuring out and learning all that it entails. What do I want, what do I need, what are my strengths, my weaknesses, the things I love to do, the things I hate to do, the things that make me smile and joyful, etc. At least it’s a start…….

  8. yogamum says:

    Hi ! I’m new to the blog and thought I’d share my story. My husband became addicted to prescription pain killers and I had no idea. I knew money was leaving in large amounts and knew he had issues with drinking. I felt like the person I married was gone and felt ugly because my husband wasn’t turn on by me. I found him watching pornography which i had never knew of during the 5 yrs we were married. I tried to be supportive of him after finding out about his addiction and lies. I was 2 months pregnant when I found out about his addiction and lies. I gave him several chances and he continued to lie to me and do drugs. I was pregnant and felt resent toward my husband for ruining what should have been a happy time. I realize now I am in control of my happiness and shouldn’t let others control it or place blame for it.

    After our son was born he got into an accident a DUI at 10 am. If my son would have been in the car at the time of the accident I don think he would have survived. I chose to move out after the DUI, my son was only 4 months old. I hated what my husband did and I no longer trusted him or respected him. He told me he didn’t want a divorce for a long time and would would missing for months on end. My ex mil blamed me for his addiction saying I put too much pressure on him and left him when he was facing the lowest point in his life.

    Two years ago he suffered medical issues from his heavy drinking he was in the hospital for several months. I went to visit and be with him since he had no family around and I didn’t want him to be alone. He later moved out of state, to live with his mom while he recovered. I found out about his move when I went to the hospital only to find out he was no longer there. He didn’t say goodbye to our son he just left.

    He called once to talk to our son and didn’t return e-mails. I had no idea where he was and it had been 2 yrs since I had seen him. In December 2013 I found out through friends where he was living and that he was in a relationship with someone else. I felt hurt, extreme hurt and enormous grief. I was so angry with him. I filed for divorce and he was served. I called and e-mailed him asking him to try and work things out.

    I went to my first counseling session at then end of January I went to my first counseling session, I was given homework to read this book. I haven’t been able to go to another counseling session at $150 per 1 hour session is a lot. My ex doesn’t pay any type of child support and so I need to find another option for counseling. It hurts when I hear he is taking his new gf out for huka, coffee and pizza but has never helped support our son. My ex doesn’t have a job and hasn’t had once for the last 4 yrs but he still finds a way to pay for things.

    I know it’s best we separate, I’m cycling through the grief stages but know deep down my
    Son and I are better off and happier without my ex .

    • tara001 says:

      Hi, Yogamum. Wow, you are going through a lot!!! A few thoughts: Why is this fly-by-night not paying child support? Have you filed for child support? You should get it legally, no? If so, please pursue it, even through your local social services or other agency…. if you are entitled to child support, you should get it on behalf of your son. You say he doesn’t have a job, but child support folks will assess his income (and expenditures and assets) and determine whether he can and should pay child support.

      And getting child support might help your own recovery (affording a counselor). And, by the way, you can get less-expensive counseling, depending on where you live, through your local mental health center; worth checking into! I’ve used a community-based counseling center, when I didn’t have money for counseling but desperately needed assistance. It was based on ability-to-pay, and was quite reasonable.

      And, on his addiction: His mil says YOU are responsible for his addiction? There’s a raving codependent mom there, blaming anyone but the person who is addicted. Wow. She sure did him no favors by justifying his behavior and then actually blaming others (you) for it. I hope you don’t believe a word she says; it’s just codep babble-talk from the mil’s side, and not a word of it is true. You can’t “cause” another’s addiction anymore than you can force a man to become a woman, or a fish. Baloney.

      He has just wandered off, no doubt still addicted, with someone else (who puts up with his B.S.), and ignores his son. Not a nice guy. I’m so sorry for your pain, but as you note, your son and you are better off and happier without him. Not that knowing this makes your recovery any easier, but it IS true … hang in there!

      • yogamum says:

        Tara001 it’s always helpful mad encouraging to hear positive advice, thank you! I should be receiving child support from the ex our divorce is in the waiting period, our state requires a 90 day waiting period. I felt bad for my ex and for moving out, and as a result I made excuses for him to not have to support our child. I realize now that was a mistake and enabling him. I desperately want to e-mail the ex and his gf about child support but realize the gf should play no part in our communication.

        The sad thing is I believed I was the cause of his addiction. I had zero self esteem and it’s still not great but it’s better than where it was. When I went to my first counseling session the topic of my mil and the blame I was placing on myself took the full hour. I left knowing it wasn’t me who drove him to drink or take pain killers. In fact my counselor helped me realize both the ex and his mom know addiction runs in their family and they were still blaming me!

        I didn’t know there were community based options for counseling. I was told that it is bad to use health insurance for counseling the counselor gave me details, however I think I should look into this more as well.

        I am happier and better off single, it’s been 4 yrs and I haven’t dated. I feel like I’m ready to date but don’t find myself interested in anyone that’s interested in me. I feel like I’ll be alone for ever and my close friends are having babies. I feel like my clock is ticking and by the time I find and trust someone it will be too late to have more kids. I just started in on the dating and relationship section of Getting Past Your Break Up which comes at a perfect time!

        Thanks again for the positive advice and thoughts tara001! :)

  9. tara001 says:

    Just_me, Susan’s topic “But I want more!” above, says it perfectly — red flags are anything that cause you pain, discomfort, confusion, uneasiness, doubt — even a teensy jab — something to look at. Words, or actions, that seem insensitive, disingenuous, disrespectful, “ha ha funny I was only kidding,” “you’re too sensitive,” stuff like that. Anything that gives you that familiar old queasy-stomach feeling of being on thin ice again, or walking on eggshells. I bet you have a million experiences in your own life, as I do in mine, and not just from lovers, either! In fact, spotting them in regular ole people in your life is very helpful; I just noticed some not-so-nice narc behavior in a friend who gets snarky sometimes to me with little “corrective” putdowns. I’m not ready to pull the plug on our long friendship, but I AM aware of what she’s doing, and I will not let her hurt me, and will speak up when necessary, and pull back on my trust in her. Ah, well…

    Also, Natalie Lue’s Baggage Reclaim has lots of stuff on red flags. You can go to BR and type “red flags” in the search bar, or hopefully this link will come through here: http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/tag/how-to-recognise-red-flag-behaviour/

    Maybe the bottom line is — if it’s flapping pink, and not even red yet, don’t ignore it! Trust your instincts.

    • just_me just_me says:

      Thanks Tara! And I know that you are right & I’ve had PLENTY of red flag experiences in my life, too many to count actually…..and a lot that I’ve ignored. I guess it’s all about learning to trust yourself if it doesn’t feel okay, then it isn’t.

      Thanks for the info and I appreciate your response.

      I hope you are well!!

  10. avh1981 says:

    Your book talks a lot about forgiveness of the person who broke up with you. But what if your trouble is forgiving yourself for screwing up your chance to be with a good person who you really liked?

    • Wildwood says:

      Hi avh1981. Can you tell us any more about what happened, and what you did? There is a phrase from Susan’s writings (can’t remember if it’s in the book) – ‘Water seeks its own level’. But it’s hard to know how it might apply without knowing a bit more about the situation. Still, if you’re making a real commitment to take responsibility for what you did that damaged the relationship, and to making changes for the future, it’s important to be able to forgive yourself. Understanding the factors that influenced us behaving in those ways can help – e.g. I have more understanding now of how problems in my childhood have influenced me behaving as an adult in ways that were harmful to myself and others. That doesn’t take away my responsibility to do something about that now, but it does help me to forgive myself for past misbehaviours.

  11. laralec says:

    I am new to posts my first one. I have been in an emotionally abusive relationship. I guess we both were to each other at times. Outside factors that we had no control over split us apart after 14 years of intimacy and business partners. These outside factors and individuals eventually gave her a mental breakdown and NC has been taken not by choice but by facility. I realize now the lies and manipulations that have been told to me. She almost cost me the business that to years to develop and many other financial setbacks. Yet I continue to make excuses for her and defend her behavior. This has been going on since November. Her parents who are dysfunctional themselves have basically taken control of her life. I had to get antidpressants and am still obsessive in hoping every call or text is her. Counsellors have told me to move on and a relationship with a bipolar personality is difficult but I am empty without her.
    Help me change my focus with ideas i have lost my identity. I am also clinging to the hope she will be back. But in my heart i know its not in my best interest health wise. The stages of grief and disbelief are constant and i wish i could wake up and this was just a dream. If and when the time comes that she does come back or make contact i pray that i am in the right state of mind to handle it
    Please any suggestions ?

    • Wildwood says:

      Hi laralec. Hope you’re doing OK. It’s really hard when you’re with someone with major issues like a mental health problem – you put your focus so much on them that you don’t know what to do when they’re gone. Have you got Susan’s book? It has some great advice about how you start putting the focus back on yourself, doing nice things for yourself, doing affirmations, gratitude lists. What do you have in your life that’s good – work, friendships, any hobbies or interests? The searing pain and grief does pass, but you have to build in other things to do, despite not feeling like it. Try to get out to see friends, or meet new people (try not to turn that into looking for a new relationship though, because that never goes well!). Get some self-help books and start working through different exercises in them. I’d recommend Susan’s book, ‘Getting Past Your Breakup’ and also a book by Susan Anderson, ‘The Journey from Abandonment to Healing’. There is life after this, I promise you. My life has changed dramatically in the four years since first finding this site, and even though I’m now mourning another lost relationship, I’m happier in my life than I ever imagined I could be. That will happen for you too.

  12. Wildwood says:

    Hi everyone. I’ve been on GPYB a couple of times before over the last few years. And I’m back again. After my last break-up, two years ago, I did a lot of work – a couple of Susan’s bootcamps, and work with Co-Dependents Anonymous. And i have been doing pretty well. ( months ago, I met a guy, and got to know him, and over the months, have thought that he was reliable, and consistent, and caring, and all the things that I hadn’t experienced before in a relationship. And I’d started to think he was the one. But it’s all fallen apart. He started to become a little more distant in the last couple of months, after telling me at Christmas that he loved me, introducing him to his sister, inviting me away with him in July. He’s introduced me to most of his friends, and we’ve talked about a lot, and managed some disagreements. But then it feels like he backed off, and tonight I tackled it, and we’ve split up. Turns out he doesn’t know whether he wants anything more serious or long-term. I said that him not knowing that is not OK with me. And I’ve been left with another whole heap of heart-ache. I know it’ll get better, but God, does it hurt right now.

  13. Wildwood says:

    I’ve just had the last communication with him I’ll ever had. I e-mailed him to say I needed to drop off some of his stuff. And he e-mailed me back about arranging that, and said something like “I feel sad about it. I feel we connected well and you were fun to be with. I’ll miss that”. FFS, “you were fun to be with”!! At Christmas he said he loved me. We had started to share deep feelings and things we hadn’t told other people. And all he says is I was “fun to be with”??! What an f***ing BH. Trying to protect his feelings by putting me down like that. Well, I guess it’s a good thing. It will make NC much easier.
    Hope you’re all feeling better than I am today! Be strong.

    • clarys says:

      Wildwood, I’m really sorry you’re having this painful experience. These casual, dismissive statements are like knives in the heart. I got one too – the man I was crazy about and had given my heart and soul to said “I really like messin’ around with you” right before he dumped me for somebody else. Double whammy! The statement was far worse than the dumping. This guy made my heart sing – and for him it was just a good ole time. Very painful. Well, many of us here have been through something similar, so I hope that feeling our solidarity will help you heal.

      • Wildwood says:

        Thanks clarys. It’s good to remember that we’re not alone. I think that those casual, dismissive statements are about them avoiding feeling their pain by dumping it on us. But we’ve got to refuse to accept their rejection as being anything to do with us. I know from past experience that the pain will pass, but the only way out is through. Perhaps if we imagine that we’re all holding hands with each other through the pain, cheering each other on, it will help.

  14. tquar384 says:

    I don’t know if this site is strictly for women. I apologize if it is. I am going through a very rough patch right now and could really use some advice.

    A little over a year ago, I met a girl online who I thought was so beautiful and after talking with her for a few weeks, feelings began to come in play. We went on a few dates and they could not have been any better. She was an amazing person. It felt so right. We continued to see each other for about 6 months. Only on the weekends because she lived a little over two hours away and we both worked. We decided to move in together. She moved to where I was currently living, even though there was talks about moving halfway between.

    She got a new job up here and quit her old job. She dropped everything for me. Everything was going well, but then I began to become frustrated with my job. So I applied to about 10 or so different places, one being where she worked. I talked to her about it and she said she was okay with it. Of course, I got the position and started to work there. I wish I never would have taken it because I knew from the second interview I wasn’t going to like it. I took it because I wanted so badly out of my old job. Let me mention, this new position was an outside sales position so we were not in the same building everyday. We were doing the same thing, just in completely different territories.

    This is kind of when it seemed like things began to decline. I think we were both unhappy with the position and trying to make it work, but it just wasn’t. At times, I would become frustrated with her and yell at her. There’s no excuse for that at all. No matter what she was doing. And trust me, it was nothing big at all.

    She would sit me down and try and talk to me about the fights after a few days and I would sort of sweep it under the rug, press on and forget about it. While she really wanted to talk about it. After some more of events like these, I guess she began to contemplate leaving me and moving back home with her mom. She asked me if I wanted to go to therapy because she wanted this and again, like a moron, I shot it down. I wanted this relationship so badly and still do, so why did I act like that? I am not the most open person when it comes to my feelings. Although I truly wanted her, I didn’t show her as if I did.

    So three weeks ago we had a fight. I told her I was leaving for work and walked out the door. Normally, before I leave and when I get home from work, I would kiss her goodbye and tell her I loved her. I get home from work and she drops the bomb on me. She tells me she is transferring jobs and moving in with her mom. She’s crying. I’m crying. It’s just a mess. So the whole week, I try getting her to stay and we just keep going around in circles. I let her stay in the apartment we had because she wants moving out until the weekend and I stayed at my parents. There was crying the whole week for both parties.

    We still talked through text here and there, with the occasional phone call. Then the following week (last week), communication seemed to lessen because she was unpacking and I guess trying to keep busy. However, there were some days where she would text me first to see how I was doing. We would talk on the phone still and when we would talk about “us” she would say, “I moved, this is over for now”, but then “if we do get back together, I am not moving up there again”.

    This past Sunday, I sent her a text telling her how badly I messed up and I was going to give her the space she asked for. Sunday went by, Monday passed and Tuesday came. I was struggling all day. Mind you, this the break up, I haven’t been able to sleep, eat or go to work because I am so broken. So I decided to call her Tuesday afternoon and she answered. I told her I am sorry for calling, but I couldn’t take it anymore. I told her I missed her. She said the same. I told her I loved her. She said the same. She said she had to go because she was working. I text her a little while later because something funny happened that reminded me of her and we continued to text for a short while. Then the next day, I decided I was not going to text her. So I am going through the day and I get a text from her around noon. We continue to text throughout the day. Nothing serious at all, just talking about our days. Towards the end of the day, I decided to ask her why we were not following the “no contact” and her responses was because I reached out to her. I didn’t want to start a fight, but she began the conversation that day. Then I decided to ask if I could see her over the weekend and she kind of went off on me. She said she decided to move out and move on. I asked if this was over for good, and she said for now it was. That’s, for the most part, how the day ended.

    The next she reached out to me again. I asked her why and she said she felt bad for going off on me. She was checking in on me. Then we decided to do no contact again and I haven’t heard from her since. It was only yesterday, I know.

    I am just having a very hard time realizing what she wants. At one point, she seems like she is done and other points she seems like she just needs space. Time to cool down. Overall, throughout all the conversations, I truly think she needs space. However, I don’t know what to do. Do I just sit here and wait? Do I try and move on? I just don’t have a clue. I love this girl so much and would do anything to be with her. She isn’t seeing this right now from her end and it kills me everyday. I’m seriously at the lowest point in my life.

    If I could get any advice on anything, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

    • angels_rose.74 says:

      Hi tquar384,

      Firstly, of course this site isn’t only for women. I’m a big believer in fate and you stumbled across this website because you needed to. You will find a lot of love and support on this site from people in the same and sadly, worse situations than yours.
      I read your post with a bit of a tear in my eye, I must say. There is nothing absolutely NOTHING like the aching misery as the clock ticks by second by second and you don’t hear from them… and then when you finally do – it leaves you feeling empty.
      From one friend to another – indulge me for a second and let me pass on a piece of invaluable advice that was given to me by Susan and all the other generous and loving souls on this site – you MUST go no contact. I’m sorry to have to tell you this, but right now is a time to put yourself first. The no.1 thing you must do for your self is to go no contact. This means no facebook, email, text, phonecalls, visits etc etc. It’s the absolute ONLY way you are going to be able to heal in the first instance.
      All the rest of the logistics will sort out in time – going no contact is what you should do now. Unfortunately it is also the single most difficult and excrutiatingly painful thing you can do and also the last thing you want to do. And believe me I am HOPELESS… I mean HOPELESS (like seriously, look up hopeless in the dictionary and there is my picture) at going no contact.
      I was spectacularly dumped in May last year by my partner of 3 years. I say spectacularly as I simply did not see it coming. We had just purchased an investment property together (interestingly in the US – I live in SYdney Australia) and he just came home one day, we got into an argument like we had a thousand times before and he simply said “I want you to leave. This is over. Oh and by the way – I’m not sure if I love you, I’m not sure I ever did”. And wham…. hello city of pain, population: me. It was my intense sadness that led me to this site and ultimately to reading Susan’s book and starting on all the exercises. Like you I couldn’t eat, sleep, go to work, function as a human being. I moved back in with my parents (I’m nearly 40 for goodness sake!). It took me a while to start reading the book even though I had purchased it some months before.. as soon as I did start, I was kicking myself for not reading it sooner. I still haven’t finished the book as I kept breaking no contact over and over and over again.
      All I can say is keep trying. Susan mentions “sitting with the uncomfortable feelings”, knowing that they are going to come, you’re going to feel crap, then they are going to pass and you’ll feel better. Even if it’s marginally better, its still Better.
      Try to focus on other things and try to be ok with the uncomfortable feelings. Come back to this site and talk to all of us as often as you need to. Everyone on here knows that gut wrenching pain you are feeling and we are all supporting you as you start your healing journey.


      • Susan J. Elliott Susan J. Elliott says:

        Wow. Great reply. Thanks for fielding this one. I could not have said it better myself!!!

  15. AnewDawn83 says:

    Hi everyone,
    bit ashamed to post my story but here goes. I have been in an on and off toxic relationship for 5 years with someone who I thought I loved – I have essentially been his ‘back up plan’ for 5 years – we get together then he just disappears or dumps me via text message – we have been split up for a year now (technically) this mainly occurred as he had a one night stand with a girl whilst trying to also get back with me who claimed she was pregnant, he moved her in only to find out that she had lied – although by that time she really was – she won’t let him see the child now – I in the last 6 months have been a shoulder to cry on whilst recognising that I was in a dangerous place I continued and things got physical – once again he has just disappeared and I know from a mutual source that this is because he has a new girlfriend. At the point I was angry with myself and thought enough this person is so disrespectful and by allowing them this control im hating myself – the problem is now I have discovered I am 6 weeks pregnant even though I have been taking contraception

    • yojohnny says:

      Hi Anewdawn83, I’m new here and was just scrolling down the comments and your story moved me. Hope you’re ok and that you make some good decisions for yourself.
      I fell into a relationship very shortly after splitting up with my wife of 20 years last summer. It was head-over-heels stuff but has been collapsing since Christmas, bit by bit like a slow drip from a leaky tap. It finally finished today. I knew it was coming and boy did I get ready. 3 days ago amidst protracted and cathartic emotional outpourings I received my copy of GPYB. Yesterday had a local printer print the workbook which I am now ploughing through. Practising my affirmations, greeting the day with a positive attitude, meditating and deep breathing, have cut out all intoxicants except my morning coffee, love my morning coffee, am losing loads of weight in a good way, have started reaching out to friends and have a lovely Break-up Buddy. My emotional state is changing rapidly. I can’t believe the change as this relationship has hit me to the core and taken me to such deep deep joyful and upsetting places. I feel grateful and I know that I have a journey to travel and that I haven’t reached my destination yet but I am making a damn fine start.

      Good luck to y’all, especially you Anewdawn83

  16. IchooseME says:

    Hi all,

    Needed to post about a bewildering but manageable event. After 6 solid months of NC, my ex “liked” one of my sister’s Facebook pictures with me in it a few days ago.

    At first, I was completely shocked and felt lightheaded and panicked. I talked it out with my sister and we decided I should just assume it means “no hard feelings” and forget it. And I felt okay, like I had processed it and was fine. But now I can’t stop thinking about it.

    It sounds so stupid but this has really messed with me. I’m angry that he thinks he can so casually insert himself into my thoughts. I had friends text me about it with the same sentiment and then it got me thinking I REALLY don’t like that it could look like we’re still in communication to anyone that doesn’t know better.

    And I’m irritated that this has kicked up more ruminations, splitting, and obsessive thoughts than usual. I’m wondering what he’s doing, what the gesture means, and worried that this is a sign of things to come and I have a text or email coming my way.

    Anyone else experience a nonverbal NC breach like this? I am annoyed beyond words, so any advice helps.


    • knd393 says:

      Dear Ichooseme,

      Block him. Delete anything that has to do with him. That is my advice. If all it takes is one little “like” on FB, to get you thinking, wondering and confused, while all he has to do is just click a button and move on with his day, then ignore it and get back to YOU.

      I am on about 6 weeks of NC. I feel SO much better! The first 3-4 weeks were rough, but I removed him from every aspect of my life. Following some sound advice on here, I stopped contact with his parents & sister. That helped a lot.
      I journal, (and can see my progress), I am doing yoga, going out with friends, smiling more and my anxiety is dropping every day. If I think about him, I immediately say to myself ” it doesn’t matter” over and over. And each day, I have started to accept: it really doesn’t matter!

      There is a big part of me now that is starting to fiercely fight for ME. I don’t want or need to be validated by someone who was too shallow and wishy-washy to get his head out of his a** to appreciate and fight for me. His loss. If he were to reach out to me, after much deliberation, I decided, I would just hang up the phone. There is nothing to be gained by having a conversation. There is no point, gain or reason to ever speak to him again. It’s a done deal, and why waste my time any longer?

      I know I need to work on self-esteem, It was my lack there-of that got me into a relationship with an unavailable man. So, that is my goal: me! I need to focus on me. And that is starting to feel great!

      Hang in there, go NC completely and RUN from ruminating about his thought process for doing ANYTHING! Chances are, if he hurt you, or discarded your relationship- he doesn’t have much of any thoughts except himself. That seems to be a common factor amongst these losers.

      Good luck, and love yourself. K

      • IchooseME says:

        Thanks for replying, knd393. I really appreciate it.

        I did unfollow him, his friends, and family on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram etc and blocked him from seeing my pictures but stopped short of de-friending everyone because I wanted it to go unnoticed on their end and to appear as if we were civil if they, or anyone else, bothered to look. (We grew up together, so I felt there were a lot of eyes from home that were watching/judging right after the breakup.)

        I guess the answer is that I need my sister to block her pictures from him too. She offered right after it happened but I declined because it doesn’t feel like I’m leading a normal life when I need other people to block him for me. I don’t want to be in constant state of managing my BH exposure. I just want to go about my day! But maybe it’s too soon for that if it still affects me so much to see a “like”….

        Fortunately, I’m feeling better today. I re-read “When You Are NC and Your Ex Contacts You” in Susan’s book and I was definitely splitting and spinning. Her advice was so helpful, “just spin and let it be okay.” And I think it is now. Hope so…

        Thanks again, knd393. It sounds like you’re doing great and really have a handle on what we all need to do to get better and keep the focus on US.

        You are absolutely on the money- he wasn’t able to think of anyone but himself because he’s a bipolar narcissist. And, like you said, I do NOT want to be in the business of trying to understand why he does what he does. AND, as it turns out, you can’t make sense out of nonsense….love that.

  17. Marie83 says:

    After another stint with the BH i’m back here again – oddly after he disappeared on me this time I felt more angry with myself than with him and did what I have never done and removed him from all social media and felt determined for the first time that there is no doubt that this is just a crazy situation. Problem I have now is that I have found out i’m pregnant – karma strikes again

  18. Elena says:

    Hi all,

    Haven’t been posting in a long time but could use some words of encouragement today.

    For the new ones, I arrived on this blog one year ago after breaking up with my BH. It has been a hard and really painful journey. I have never felt like that before. The help of this blog and my therapist have been fundamental in my recovery. Finally, after 7 months of crying I realised I didn’t want that person back into my life and slowly started feeling better. I still had my downs and felt very lonely at times but I could see it was getting better. Especially the last 3 months have been really good. I have been focusing on myself, working hard and enjoying life outside of work with my friends and on my own. Planning some weekend trips and a holiday, going to French, yoga and photography classes.

    However, a bit over a month ago I met someone I started going out with. I didn’t fall in love with him (fortunately!) but I really liked him. He was very sweet, complimented me a lot and didn’t play games. He was always the one getting in touch with me but at the same time he was discrete. Neither distant nor pressuring me. He would text every 2 or 3 days, asking me to meet, which I found the perfect balance for the first month. Unfortunately, one day he confessed that he had not been honest to me. Why? Because he has a girlfriend and two daughters (2 and a half and 10 months old…)! I can’t even explain how I felt. After the initial shock though, I thought I could handle it, as I wasn’t in love, and almost fell back into my usual habits. I saw him 3 more times but then decided I had to remain true to myself and my dreams, and therefore couldn’t continue this “relationship”. I don’t want a part-time boyfriend, who can be there for me only when his official girlfriend is busy with other things, at work or out of town. I didn’t want to disrespect myself once again and invest time and energy in something with no future whatsoever. So, I decided to tell him all of this and stop seeing him. This was last Friday. This weekend has been quite sad, but today I am already feeling much better. Every time I get a bit sad, I remind myself that I have to be proud of what I did. One year ago I would have stayed in this situation and continued for months until he probably would have had enough at some point and then I would have been miserable. This time I chose me and opted out on time.

    I think all the learning process I have been through over the past year have helped me tremendously. I feel wiser now.


    • knd393 says:


      Good for you for dropping this guy. Had kids, a gf? Conveniently forgot to mention it for awhile? What a jerk!

      Good for you for seeing it, acting on it and ending it. It speaks a lot to your progress. I don’t think even a month ago, I would have been able to do that, but time, experience and perspective help- even when it hurts.

      Stay strong and kudos to you for choosing you! K

  19. tquar384 says:

    I just lost my girlfriend of a little under a year. She meant the world to me. She moved in after 6 months because everything was going so well. A few months after this, we both started working for the same company. We are outside sales reps, so we don’t work together everyday. In my opinion, it was too many new things for such a new couple.

    She moved out and moved back home. We talked here and there through text and phone calls, but it was just about how I wanted her back because I am devastated. I can’t do normal things without her. I can’t eat, sleep or even go to work. These have been changing slightly, but they are still rough. Last week, we decided to go NC and over the weekend I reached out because I was out with some friends and saw happy couples. It made me think of us. So I sent a few texts and called her a few a times with no response in return.

    Today is what would have been our one year anniversary and I still haven’t heard from her. I haven’t contacted her, but would think I would being that this day is still special to me. I just don’t know what to do.

    Her reason for leaving was because she said we weren’t happy any longer and we both need to get back to being happy before this can work. She missed her mom, who lived in the neighboring state and didn’t like the area I lived in. When we talked she always said this is not going to work right now and she needs space. However, she would say if this does happen again, meaning us getting back together, she would not be willing to move back and I would have to move there. Which I’m fine with because she means the world to me.

    I am just at loss right now, not knowing what to do next. I want to give her her space, but I don’t want her to forget about me and move on with another man. Any words of wisdom or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


    • angels_rose.74 says:

      Hi tquar384,

      I’ve just finished writing a super long reply to your first post, when I came across this one about 20 mins later.

      Just wanted to reach out to you to tell you that for your own sanity’s sake you MUST go no contact. Be truly committed to it, like you once were to her.
      It’s probably the single most difficult thing you will ever do – but if I can offer some advice, it would be this.
      And this is coming from me… the queen of breaking no contact. I am the worst EVER at going no contact.. but each day I try again. Sometimes I make 3 days, sometimes 3 weeks, sometimes 3 hours – but what is constant is that empty feeling I have after each time I break no contact. THAT is what I’m trying to focus on now… not having that empty feeling of breaking no contact by…. you guessed it….. not breaking it.
      Grab a copy of Susan’s book – read her story and try to visit this site often. I have found a lot of solace and healing from this site through reading other’s stories and connecting with people experiencing that same gut wrenching pain that you are going through right now.
      Try to read my other post if you can – hopefully it might help to know that there is at least one person out there (albeit on the other side of the world) who knows exactly how you are feeling.

      AR xx

  20. ag65 says:


    Newbie here. Currently untangled in a separation with my wife. Heartbroken.

    Trying to figure out how this blog works :)

    If I want to post something – other that answering this thread – is that possible?

    Many thanks

    • angels_rose.74 says:

      Hey there ag65,

      Simple answer to your question – there is usually a check-in thread that everyone posts on and visits more than the others. You can reply to any post as Susan usually puts a thread or facility to comment on her words of wisdom – but for the everyday stuff and to connect with this community, I would suggest the check in thread be your first port of call.
      You will find a lot of great advice on here and everyone here has been exactly where you are right now and know how you feel. Some are more advanced in their journey’s than others… but suffice to say this site is akin to a big warm hug from a big bunch of friends.

  21. mchinela says:

    Nice to see new people on here…
    So I have been single since my hurtful breakup August 2012. I have had a lot of intersting dating experiences but no one has stuck and mainly I have focused on myself. I started seeing a therapist in November which has helped me immensly. I have not talked to my bananhead since September 2012. Literally. No text no email no form of communication whatsover…..I feel there is really nothing to talk about.. one big thing i had a problem with in my breakup are the WHYS

    why did he leave me for his ex? why did they have a child right away? why did he throw away our 7 years ? why did he treat me bad? why did i allow him to treat me bad? WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY … until in my heart I accepted that these questions would never have an answer.. and I became at peace with that and realized letting that all go really helped me focus on THE PRESENT….

    I was in a toxic living situation.. the place I have lived at the last two years is great but my roommate has issues I have realized… makes a big deal about minor things.. finally I realized it was toxic and unhealthy for me to live there and that he is a narcissist rude a-hole.. I am movng this weekend and other things are happening for me that are making me happy…

    I met someone 3 months ago… he treats me good, we get along good, we mutually respect each other, blah blah the list goes on.. I wanted to wait a long time before making things official but he asked me the other day and I felt it was time to make it official… so I told him yes..

    its just foreign to me being with someone who treats me the way I desreve.. I guess I am still getting used to it.. but I am realizing like Susan has said many times, love is an action.. this guy really tries and I can tell its not a front .. I shudder at everything i tolerated in the past with my ex. I was abused, yelled at, ignored, used, neglected, etc…. now I realize that was absolutly psychotic and althogh I did alway stay, I knew things would never be right to have a future with this person because their actions always just never sat right with me, but I stayed there through it all.. maybe in my mind I felt like he was the last guy alive but there is always someone better !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i am still adjusting to being with someone good am i weird for that/??

    • Susan J. Elliott Susan J. Elliott says:

      I had a steady stream of pretty good boyfriends from my divorce from the MOAB (mother of all bananaheads for those who are new). And I had trouble with the best ones and not so much with the ones that were not so great. None were really abusive, but some were borderline in the taking advantage of me department.

      When I met Michael he was way too good to be true. I found one of his first love notes to me the other day and it said, “I want to make you the happiest person in the whole world.” And he did. At the time I was like, “Right, buddy.” But he promised and never faltered, never even blinked when it came to that promise. Those who know our story from my blog Rope Burns (http://RopeBurns.wordpress.com ) know that the first time I cried was the day they told me he had 3 to 6 months to live.

      But in the months before we got married I almost broke up with him like a dozen times. The only one he knew about was the one the night before we got married. (great timing on my part)

      I’m not saying every guy is a gem, but when you’ve been with abusive bananaheads are tough to get used to. It’s not weird.

      Be good to you. Keep your standards high and let everyone in the world be good to you. You deserve it!

      • mchinela says:

        hahah! my BH is the KING MASTER SUPERIOR MOTHER OF ALL BANANA HEADS… I really look at my friends relationships and theyve dated jerks here and there but the actions of my bh takes the cake … and he has a banana woman now at his level…. so I guess after being with someone of that horrible caliber, it is so hard for me to adjust !!

        my new guy told me last week that I seem like the sort of woman that does not tolerate any crap from any man and that would hit the road in a quickness..

        its funny he sees this .. because I think I have a new found attitude on life and It must shine through how I carry myself. I look back at all the SHENANAGINS and cruel stuff my ex would do and I realize now I was staying because him rejecting me hurt and I felt I had to prove something and I dindt want to be rejected by A LOSER .. now my outlook with men is different. If I see BS i will go running for the hills. I would rather be alone then mistreated. I guess I didnt want to be alone and I didnt want to accept someone could be so mean to me and other issues I had are what kept me there….

        ths guy sent me flowers at work and no guy has ever done that. I took a trip to seattle and he joined me because he said ” its where i wanted to go and he knew it would make me happy to go there so he joined” my bh would have put up a selfish fight or not joined….

        but at the end of the day i tell myself if it doesnt work with this guy ITS OK……. Its notgoing to be like with my ex where I felt the world was ending…. i had a lot of issues to get thruogh and in a really weird way my exs actions helped me address these things …..

  22. Susan J. Elliott Susan J. Elliott says:

    Dear all: There is a new check-in thread and if your post/comment is not answered here, please feel free to copy and paste to the new one.

  23. Ccds says:

    Where is the new check-in thread? I’m so lost on this new site. Thanks!

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